Interview with EMBRACE OF THORNS

How many chances have someone to coincidentally meet EMBRACE OF THORNS in a city with a population close to 22 millions? Hmm...in my opinion... not many...! We have been very lucky though, because Vinyl Mint met them in Mexico City, where they had their latest live shows. After that we had the pleasure to chat with Archfiend DevilPig. Enjoy!

Hail Archfiend DevilPig and welcome to FILTHY DOGS OF METAL Webzine. It is really pleasant to have a chat with you! Let's go back in time and tell us when you started the magical journey into the world of heavy metal.
Thank you for having me S.
Man, it's been a wild ride. It must have been back in 1992 when I was first exposed to the sounds of pounding drums and electric guitars. I have the luck of having cousins way older than me. So it was a cool synergy of events really. I first started dabbling with heavy metal as I said, around the time ''fear of the dark'', ''a real live one'' and ''a real dead one'' LPs were released. I was running errands for my father, so I hassled a few pennies out of him and bought my first tapes which were the aforementionened live maiden albums. Around the same time I was hanging out in the local record store and was awestruck by covers such as ''Keeper pt.2'' by Helloween, "Wild dogs" by the Rods and ''Rock n' Roll'' by Motörhead. Of course the store owner dubbed those on tape for me. During one of my visits to an older cousin of mine, who was born in the 60ies and was pretty much done with metal, he flat out handed me LP copies of ''Powerslave'' and Yngwie Malmsteen's ''Trilogy''. As well as tape comps. he'd dubbed. Stuff like choice cuts of the Sabbath albums with Dio , plus some Ozzy tracks out of "we sold our soul for Rock n' Roll. Other stuff included ''Blackout'' and ''Love at first Sting'', choice cuts from the first 3 Maiden LPs, plus ''Maiden Japan'' live EP and ''Tokyo tapes'' by Scorpions split tape with ''one night at Budokan'' by MSG. But the best of all and a real gate opener was a tape with ''Black Metal'' by VENOM plus some bonus tracks by the ''Unexpected guest'' of DEMON. He also played stuff like ''deathrider'' by Anthrax, ''Evil has no boundaries'' by SLAYER, MOTÖRHEAD ''s/t'' and maybe lighter stuff like Baron Rojo, ''metal rendezvous'' by Krokus and ''s/t'' by ACCEPT. He was kinda partial in his taste and was already into new wave and punk. Still he was a big influence and I owe him a lot... After '93 the Greek satanic panic came, there could not have been a better advertisement for extreme metal in Greece I suppose. I still chuckle when I recall the ''Pieces'' EP cover of Dismember on Greek TV. I was hooked...for life...I started buying discount tapes and LPs which were abundant back in the day. Literally everything I could . From Mayhem, Autopsy, Blasphemy, Asphyx to Holy Terror, Coroner, Sadus, Omen and Black Shepherd.

The history of EMBRACE OF THORNS started back in 1998. Which are your memories from these days, and which were your main influences back then?
Back in 1998 our influences was a boiling cauldron of thrash black and death metal. We would easily switch between Unleashed, Deicide and Necromantia or Bathory, Destruction, Sodom and Celtic Frost. Undoubtedly the Greek stuff by bands such as Rotting Christ, Varathron. Thou art Lord, Necromantia had a great impact, as well as the feral death metal of Morbid Angel and Deicide. Late 90ies was our youth so everything is now seen through rose-tinted glasses, when I think back. I even kinda miss typical acts of that era, they were called retro but were actually pretty cool, bands like Infernö, Bewitched, Swordmaster, Hypnosia and the likes... It's probably nothing else than me romanticizing the whole deal.

How was the situation between the bands in the Hellenic Black Metal scene back then? Do you see any differences in today's metal music business in comparison with the music business back in the 90s and in the 00s?
Back in the early 90ies it was high and mighty, it has already been documented so I have nothing to add, other than it was pure cult, it was the era one could buy demo tapes and 7 inch EPs at record stores, that should probably be enough to state. But the late 90ies felt like a dead end. The old scene of the early 90ies had already been established and sort of changed. The late 90ies was the era of the demo cd-r. There were tons of local bands still, but the ethos of the worldwide and local underground had become different than in the early 90ies. These were the days when bands did those weekly matinees or local shows at venues like Woodstock. They had to sell tickets to their friends and aspire for a support slot at some gig with an international act. Most of those bands ended up doing nothing. Other than that it was the era of the early digital recordings and most recordings ended up sounding like shit. The early 00s on the other hand saw the rebirth of the underground spirit with zines like Tales of the Macabre, labels like Iron Pegasus, Sombre, Moribund, Red Stream Merciless, Osmose etc and later Nuclear War Now! and others really pushing underground metal again. We used to do tons of snail mail and traded with people from all the globe. It was fuckin' great!

What does Black Metal mean to you?
Interesting question! Here’s the thing: The basis of Black metal is devotion. One simply cannot be casual about it. It commands a wholehearted approach! In my view there should be no such thing as casual black metallers. Whether one sticks with it for the long run, is a completely different question. Black metal shapes ones way of thinking to a way completely opposite to the normal one.  There are transgressive and defiant elements in it. The “do what thou willt, shall be the whole of the Law” Thelemic principle, that for some is incompatible with a normal life. But normal is boring  and walking in the shadows or in the fringes of society has a certain charm. That being said ,not everyone in the scene is a “Thinker” but there are quite a few people that think out of the box. Lamentable as it is,  this romanticized version of the scene ,when it comes to the fans somehow ended with the advent of social media. Lots of people voice their often irrelevant opinions and try to revise History. This however has happened to every music genre, it unfortunately gets diluted sooner or later. I believe that  most black metal musicians that I’ve met and talked with, regardless if I like their attitudes or not, are people characterized by integrity and unconditional love for the sacred genre of black metal, maybe you caught me in a jolly mood, unwilling to start shoveling shit over people, but truth be told Black metal is a genre where most often bullshit walks and one is not allowed to be a clown for a long time. There is a lot of devotion behind a lot of black metal bands and fans , regardless of the quality of music involved…However there is a lot of tabloid sensationalism, social media buffoonery, short attention span  and herd mentality infiltrating not only black metal, but every metal genre nowadays, maybe this is the most problematic issue in nowadays scene.

Tell us 10 Black Metal releases that have "entered" your blood, and what other genres (within or outside Metal) do you listen to?
I  have actively been listening to every metal subgenre for more than 30 years. Everything from classic heavy metal to black metal. When it comes to other styles. I have been buying tons of records from punk, new wave, dark wave, gothic/death rock, progressive, psychedelic/acid rock, hard rock since the last 15 years or so. I had of course contact with the classic rock bands and definitely with hard rock, which is anyway adjacent to heavy metal, so it really feels natural. I've been listening to all of the above plus some synth music, German or other, depending on my mood or the phase I'm in at that particular moment. As for 10+1 significant black or related metal releases, these are in no particular order:
1. Sarcofago : I.N.R.I
2. Darkthrone : A blaze in the northern Sky
3. Rotting Christ : Passage to Arcturo/Thy mighty Contract
4. Mayhem : De mysteriis dom Sathanas
5. Ancient Rites : Diabolic Serenades
6. Necromantia/Varathron : Black Arts lead to everlasting sins
7. Profanatica/Masacre : Split lp
8. Beherit: Drawing down the moon
9. Impaled Nazarene: Tol cormpt norz norz norz
10. Samael : Worship him
11. Blasphemy: Gods of War

Now, let's talk about the music industry. How is the situation in Greece as far as studio recordings, rehearsal rooms, etc. are concerned?
Undoubtedly things have changed quite a bit, since we recorded the first demo. Everything has become more accessible, be it equipment, studio gear and what not. Somehow we always had access to home studio gear, at least since 2003. The fact that Herald of demonic pestilence is a proficient sound engineer with quite a few recordings under his belt has helped us tremendously. We have also worked with some great sound engineers like Harry Zourelides, who tried to facilitate what we were trying to achieve instead of messing with the band sound. So no horror stories are to be shared, fortunately. Our former drummer Nuctemeron also did a great job for Atonement Ritual, something that deserves a mention, since the means at his disposal were rather limited. Last but not least Jim from Garden of Gods/Putrefied Genitalia was really one of the very first people I know that he experimented with home recordings and helped recording some of our demos. Also Daimon Erect from BETHOR/EZGAROTH had helped us out. When it comes to the rehearsal situation, we've been rehearsing in our own room for quite some time and this is a bonus.

You were the founder of KILL YOURSELF PRODUCTIONS. What was the reason to do your own record company?
The love of music, underground metal in particularly was the main reason for starting the label. There were tons of killer underground labels in the 90ies, it really felt that the era of multinational corporate record labels had come to an end. Punk and Nwobhm scenes had already kickstarted a DIY ethos and bands were founding their labels, financing and pressing their releases. I felt inspired to do something similar and it was a good ride. I traded with lots of excellent labels and it was great to have a very worthy distro, which carried a rather excellent selection of underground releases.

How difficult or easy is it to run a record company here in Greece, and could you tell us what the reason was to end this project?
The main problem is the lack of clientele I guess, it seems there are more labels than people willing to support them. Sometimes it almost felt impossible to move releases of excellent quality. I had releases by Mortem from Peru sitting in the inventory forever. It felt absurd. No hard feelings though. The reason for ending this was that it felt that it'd ran its course. Since there was no plan to do this in a more professional way, I grew tired of trying to juggle my time between my job, my bands and the label. It was no longer viable.

You have cooperated with many labels in the past. So, after that experience, what would you say is better for EMBRACE OF THORNS? Label or DIY, and why?
We've mostly been working with indie labels and been booking our own shows with very few exceptions. So everything is practically DIY. Everything is based in handshake deals and whatnot. Money has been involved but has stayed a secondary factor throughout our history. 

Two years have past since you released your album ''Entropy Dynamics''. What was the feedback from your audience as well as from the press?
We really have fond memories of the resilient and uncompromising spirit surrounding the band during the time of creation of ‘Entropy…’. We worked in unison, rehearsed our asses off, had a clear vision and created an album worthy of our efforts and fuckin’ devotion. We thought we would tour with Revenge, Misþyrming and Ultra Silvam with ‘Entropy Dynamics’ as our calling card, but as you may know Covid-19 had other plans. Still we are immensely proud of what we did and what we are still doing. Reviews have mostly been positive with some of them being of extremely high praise. But yeah it seems that after six full lengths we are sort of preaching to the converted.  There is a constant flood of new bands, new releases etc and it makes a lot of sense that people won’t drool over our new one. After all it’s rather boring to be so consistent and delivering good albums the whole damn time, isn’t it? Sarcasm aside, those who know the band and get to hear it, or some new people even go to great lengths by saying that the new one is our pinnacle and whatnot, but for some people we will never surpass ‘Atonement Ritual’ and ‘Praying for Absolution’, the good thing is that those old albums are available again, so people please buy our products… Oh pardon my sarcasm …

You are an experienced band with a lot of live shows here in Greece as well as aboard. Is there any funny or weird story that you would like to share with us?
Our guitarist got deported for no reason by the US Customs and our other guitarist broke his wrist nine days before we fly to the US, so we had to salvage the US tour back in 2019 with the aid of members from the Denver and Los Angeles areas respectively, whom sometimes we didn't even have the luxury to rehearse prior to the show with. It's a miracle we actually pulled this through. When it comes to funny stuff, I am sure there is a plenty, but are mostly inside jokes, and if these are taken out of context then they stop being funny I assume. Most importantly playing abroad is quintessential and is extremely important for us. It offers a sense of recalibration and spiritual growth. As one can focus on the really important things when it comes to playing in a band, which are getting in contact with likeminded people across the globe and spreading the message like wildfire. Everything else connected to the petty, miserable ,day to day ratrace or inner scene gossiping is pure horseshit and should be dealt with accordingly. Spiritual growth and a sense of pride is what I feel every time I return back home from a trip abroad.

A few days ago, you had two live shows in Mexico together with Ouroboros Solemn (Mexico), Invocation (Chile), and Onslaught Kommand (Chile). How were the shows, and did you face any difficulties traveling to Mexico?
Mexico is a mythical land and it felt like a predestined place to travel over there and play, since we've been in contact with Mexican bands and people for most of our history. Nothing really weird happened. Of course the first gig was in Irapuato which has been plagued by murders and an increased crime rate because of territorial disputes initiated by the Cartel activities in the state of Guanajuato. It actually is the sixth most dangerous city in Mexico. On the way to Irapuato we had our Van checked by the Migracion Policia, they were fully armed and ready for conflict if necessity applied. It felt like a movie. Upon arrival to Irapuato our hosts from Ouroboros Solemn had set up a great barbecue feast for the bands, they were great hosts and we were humbled by the reception. Ciudad Mexico was a different story. It's a beehive of human activity, a gigantic metropolis filled with great people, same as we'd met in Irapuato. Both venues were great, with staff willing to make it easy for the bands. Last but not least we couldn't have wished for better touring partners than the lovely people in Invocation and Onslaught Kommand. As Pancho from Invocation stated ,"this was a weekend for the books". I am sure we'll meet those wonderful fellows again. A brotherhood is now formed. Gerardo from Total Death over Mexico Also deserves a special thanks, since he did everything possible to get us over there and offer the best conditions possible. Overall one of the best band experiences we've ever had.

Did you notice any differences between European metalheads and South American metalheads?
Mexican and Chileans are brothers of ours, they are unapologetically metal, proud and very deeply connected to the things they love. They've been going through shit all those years and are hardened, hardcore metal fans. There is no bullshit in their lives. They command and have my utmost respect. I am honored to now call  many of those people my friends. Truth is  we've been in contact with Southamerican people since 2003.

Where do you get your inspiration to create lyrics and music, and what is the process of EMBRACE OF THORNS to compose songs?
The thematic nucleus of the latest album is the inherent tendency of the human species for all things destructive, the hopelessness as a calm and collected realization and not as an unfortunate development. That is what entropy is about, the repeated cycle of destruction and rebirth/regeneration. It is bound to happen and it is a liberating realization. Nothing has changed when it comes to the evolution of the human species in the last couple of hundred years. Humans are still pretty much a mob, a herd. On a more personal note, I was talking to an acquaintance of mine in the gym the other day and he told me something that sparked that sort of reference, his quote was that “each of us is striving against his or her personal Entropy”. Realise that one for better or for worse is bound to perish sooner or later and that our mortal coil, a once almost invincible device, turns to a prison, a mere shell of what we once were. Antonin Artaud also mentioned something similar and abhorred the bodily confines “And truly must it be reduced to this stinking gas, my body? To say that I have a body because I have a stinking gas that forms inside me? (“To have done with the judgement of God, 1947”). Other than that we play music out of spite for the things we hate and for personal satisfaction predominantly, we don’t have any humongous fan base to retain. We have people who have been into the band since the beginning and have grown with the band, plus some others coming in with each subsequent release. Yeah, doing what we do when it comes to an evolving musical style seems the only way to do it, at least for us. Other than that the fact that black metal was always burning bridges and had a renegade and transgressive element always meant a lot to us...

From your experience for so many years in the music industry, what would you tell a new band to avoid or what to do?
I am no expert. I should probably tell them to have a solid five year plan or something along these lines and to build their status with relentless touring, but did we do that? Truth is that life throws curveballs at you more often than not. However I would tell them to do it for the love of music, stay humble, grow as individuals, enjoy the ride and never forget that they're fans first and foremost.

We are in the fourth decade of our age. Tell us how difficult or easy it is to be in a band and to have daily jobs, family, kids, etc. Have you ever sacrificed anything in your life for a better future for your band?
There is no metal lifer without tons of "lost" money, strained relationships and love lost. Everyone in a band, distro, zine, radio show, record label can attest to the truth of the above. There's no glamour in that. What a labour of love for me might be, is not necessarily my buddy's or my girlfriend's or wife's labour of love. One should understand that this is not a pastime or a petty hobby. This is no throwing darts in the pub. Any sense of understanding and support is appreciated and connects us deeper to our close people. Still it can be a drag and a sort of endless deliberations and frustrations sometimes.

In the last 4 years, worldwide in the world, we have faced many dark, strange, and new situations in our everyday lives (covid, lockdown, etc.). Did all of this affect you positively or negatively?
As previously referred to, Covid signaled a major shift when it comes to the scene. Apart from the obvious damage it caused to the live circuit, it also contributed in a new economic depression/crisis, whose negative effects we are still witnessing. When it strictly comes to us, it cut the Scorn Aesthetics circle short and definitely impacted the writing process of Entropy Dynamics. We also had a tour cancelled, as a result of the pandemic. On an even more personal basis, these have been some really rough years for me, that have also been very educational and have shaped the way I view society and human relations as a whole.

Is there new material? What will we see and hear from EMBRACE OF THORNS in the near future?
There have been talks for a seventh album. There is material, that's for sure. We have slowly started working on new ideas, trying to come up with the best song configurations possible. I believe we will record in the Summer of 2025 if everything goes according to the plan.

Archfiend Devilpig, thank you very much for this interview. We wish you the best for the future. The closure is yours.
It's been a pleasure man. I wish you the best. Keep on vinyl hunting!

By Steve the Filthy Dog.

EMBRACE OF THORNS CONTACT:

https://www.facebook.com/EmbraceOfThorns

https://www.instagram.com/embraceofthorns_official

https://embracethorns.bandcamp.com/

https://open.spotify.com/artist/1EtultnvSVx3JPfVqmrnha